There Are No Atheists – Just Idolaters

Idolater
NOUN:
One who worships idols.
One who blindly or excessively admires or adores another.

There are no atheists, just idolaters. Humans will worship something; the imprint for worship is stamped on every heart. For atheists, they have no one to worship but themselves, excessively admiring and adoring themselves. This is not a new idea. Paul talked about it in the book of Acts, chapter 17.

The Athenians were using all of these philosophies and religions as much to hide from God as to find Him. They were looking for reasons to be an intellectually and spiritually fulfilled rebel. But Paul is still tender…

“Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you,” says Paul.

Acts 17:24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27 God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.

There’s this inner void in our hearts. We grope for things to fill it. It’s not the wanting and the reaching however that’s wrong. God has been ripped from our hearts. A glitch is wired into the system of every heart. We are born not just rebels, but rebels who are reaching out for something. So the groping, reaching, and grasping – these are not the problem: it’s what we grope, reach, and grasp for instead of God that is the problem. Reaching for true purpose, peace, and joy is what you should be doing. We mustn’t be ashamed of the reaching.

The Bible teaches us that God is a hidden God. But He has given you clues you can follow, pieces of the puzzle. If we had no clues or pieces, we would never find God. But God has given us just enough evidence so that those who want Him can have him. Those who want to follow the clues will find Him. Reach out to Him.

Some question: if there is a God, why does he allow people to live in open defiance of Him? The answer: Love and mercy. He made us. We belong to Him. But He will not make us love Him back. He asks us to repent – to change our mind about who is God. For those who refuse to change their mind, He will eventually give the rebellious what they want – total separation from Him. It’s a form of judgment – giving them what they want; it’s called hell in the Bible.

Says Paul Acts 17:31: For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead.” 32 When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, “We want to hear you again on this subject.” 33 At that, Paul left the Council. 34 A few men became followers of Paul and believed. Among them was Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, also a woman named Damaris, and a number of others (NIV).

Among the many things that could be said about what Dr. Luke, the author of this book records here, it certainly underscores the fact that we are rebels without a cause. In fact, we will even make a shrine to an “unknown god” rather than bow to the God who has so graciously created us, loved us, redeemed us, and who restores us. We are rebels without a cause and this is expressed in the form of idolatry.

Paul makes a similar point in a letter he wrote to people who lived in Rome. The letter is called Romans, but it reads like a book on theology. Listen to his words:

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

God has revealed Himself in what He has made. If you never hear a sermon or read the Bible, you can still discover a lot about God by looking at what He has made – clues that lead you to Him. Look at the clues long enough and they begin to look back at you in the form of a God who made you and your world. Look closely at your world and God will whisper to you what He’s like. Mountains, lakes, oceans, clouds, wind, rain, people, and sunshine’s warmth strike a deep chord, “Yes, there is a God.”

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

The ancients knew God but they suppressed it by their wickedness and rebellion.

22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

How could we do this? Paul does not preach against atheism; he’s preaches against idolatry. The implication is that everyone will worship some kind of deity. If you refuse that point, you yourself are your own deity. To say that you are an atheist (one who does not believe in God) does not mean that you believe in nothing; it means you are liable to believe in anything – anything can and will become your god. We’ll fall in love with animals and nature because we have fallen out of love with God. We will even fall in love with ourselves.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

In my opinion, the greatest tragedy of all is to surrender ourselves so totally to our gods, that God eventually gives us up to it. It becomes our lord and master. It consumes us. We wind up used, wasted and discarded by the very thing that has charmed us.

25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

If we deny our rebellion, self-deceit sets in. I rule over my own life. No one will tell me how to live my life. But still we are hardwired for worship. So even in our rebellious state, we reach out to worship and bond with something.

Among the many things that could be said about what Paul wrote, it once again underscores the fact that we are rebels without a cause. In fact, we will go to such extremes that we will worship just about anything, so long as it’s not the one true God. We are rebels without a cause. We are not just imperfect people who need growth, but we are rebels who need to lay down our arms, idolaters who need to tear down our shrines.

These words from the Bible reveal that our fallen hearts are self-asserting, God-defying, and self-deifying. Self-worship is the religion of our time. We are a rebel race. We have bought into the notion that the serpent suggested to Eve, “God is holding out on you.” Take control of your own life. Arrange for the life you want. If God is holding out on you, then you hold out on God. And whatever you do, keep God out of your life.

There are no atheists – just idolaters.

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30 Comments

Filed under Agnosticism, Atheism, God, Idolatry, Rebellion, Sin

30 responses to “There Are No Atheists – Just Idolaters

  1. Sorry chief, but I don’t worship ANYTHING.

    Nice try though.

  2. >Those who want to follow the clues will find Him.

    And if you flap your arms hard enough and with a pure heart you will fly. If you haven’t flown yet, either you need to keep flapping, or purify your heart.

  3. What so many fail to get (not just atheists, but all people) is that in the Gospel, we don’t have to “flap or purify our heart.” We couldn’t anyway. No one could. But grace teaches us that we have already been found in the person of Christ. He’s actually found us! And done what we could never do…”flap and purify hearts.”

    He’s our greatest clue for finding God. True love…true love.

  4. Which means, quite simply, that you must believe in order to believe…

    Gotta love that logic.

  5. You seek to turn Atheists to the way of “God,” yet you go about it in wrong ways.
    At every turn, atheists are judged and judged and judged by those who the judge-ers themselves have said are unable to judge; only their Lord does that.
    If you truly want to turn Atheists to “God,” you really must take a class on how to speak to people with respect for their beliefs, regardless of what they are.
    What many religious and Atheist people seem to be lacking is the ability to talk to each other in a manner that is not inflammatory, a way to converse without causing the other to become angry.

    The opening to this article is the exact opposite of what is needed to show “love” to non-believers. You call us Idolaters, that we worship only ourselves, that we do not even *exist*, and you expect us to want to be associated with your or your ever-loving, non-believer-burning God?

    Forget your religion. Forget your God. Forget your pastor and his congregation; I will NOT be associated with the likes of those who go against the very scriptures they swear by.

  6. My issue is with atheism; not atheists. In fact, if you track my posts at all, you would see this very clearly. I would count it a privilege to have atheists as friends. I enjoy learning from others and other “non-belief” systems. However, I will call it like I see it. I will not placate or pamper. If you or others are offended, evaluate your system of non-belief.

    You will find atheism to be morally bankrupt, logically absurd, existentially repugnant, and requiring more faith than Christian Theism. It just does not work.

    If by “judging” you mean that I can’t have a viewpoint, I feel it is you who are being judgmental. However, neither here nor there. I argue that atheists already know that God exists, despite the elaborate intellectual games and all the pretending that they just “don’t know”. There are some things that you cannot NOT know. This is what I argue and if you would give it some consideration, you’ll see it too.

  7. I am not offended; I am not asking you to placate or pamper. What I should have made clear in my first comment is what I did want to ask. I want to ask what you want from Atheists.

    I am going to have to disagree with your second paragraph, not only on the grounds that I am an Atheist and do not understand where your logic comes from, but also on the grounds that that paragraph is among the most unsupported logic I have ever read. “It just does not work” is most definitely not enough. Is simply not believing in a higher power enough to warrant these statements?

    If you want an example of what I “mean” by judging, read your second paragraph again. That is what I mean. It reads as though you have absolutely no idea how being an Atheist works. I can explain it for it, as it is a very simple view. There are no gods, no heaven or hell, no demons, no angels, just our natural world.
    The belief of “I do not know” as also known as Agnosticism, which is of course not the same as Atheism. I play no intellectual games with you. All I am asking for is a clarification of your statements against Atheism, and how Atheists can “know” a higher power exists when the entire non-belief states that there is none? Is every Atheist deluding himself?

    (Below is a link to dispel any myths or misunderstandings about Atheism.)

    http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/harris06/harris06_index.html

    As this is a touchy subject with many people, I would like to make sure you know that I do not mean any of these thing I say in an inflammatory way. I say them for the sake of the arguments, no more.

  8. It’s not about me and what I want. It’s about the worldview you have embraced (which I see as the ultimate lie) and where this worldview eventually takes you if followed to its logical ends.

    I admit, this post is somewhat radical. But it’s not an idea original with me. Paul wrote about it in Romans. There are some things that we cannot NOT know. Atheists pretend to be dumb to this, while trying to convince people that they are honestly searching. If you would be honest with what you already know intuitively, you would could know there is a God. But, you have already declared there ISN’T, and in effect, cut off this possibility – which is a very foolish thing to do.

    We know things (epistemology) by personal experience, by revelation (the Bible), and by scientific investigation. Neither one stands totally alone – they compliment the other. Go hear for more info…

    http://intelligentscience.wordpress.com/2008/12/12/atheism-stands-alone-dont-fool-yourself/

  9. “There are some things that we cannot NOT know.”

    That is also one of the worst arguments I’ve heard heard for or against something. It is akin to the childish: “YEAH I DID” “NO YOU” or “YUH HUH”.

    If you are going to base your side of the debate and your belief system on “If you would be honest with what you already know intuitively, you would could know there is a God,” aka “There is TO a God, if you think about it really hard” then there is nothing more to say, your mind is closed to a different way of thinking.

  10. All you do in that post is attribute the natural evolution or adaptation of nature, and attribute it to a higher power. You take the conscience humans gain from society and passing through the 4th stage of Kohlberg’s moral development and attribute it to a higher power. You want to attribute the wonders of the world and human adaptation to a higher power? Go ahead. But the whole point of Atheism is that we do not beleive that there is a higher power that caused these things to come into existance. Atheist beliefs vary on that, and as you can see, I subscribe to Kohlberg, Piaget, and adaptation.

  11. Even behind societal mores and laws, you will find a fairly consistent moral ethic across cultural and ethnic lines. Virtually every society recognizes and demonstrates this internal moral code, this Natural Law ethic, that says “It is wrong to murder, to cheat on one’s spouse, to steal things, to lie etc… Of course, how we are nurtured impacts this, and of course, how this internal code or conscience is developed is impacted by one’s cultural, social group. But in its essence, its basic form – there is in every human being a moral law written that no one teaches us – it’s just there.

    Why do you think that virtually every society known to man has some form of worship embedded in it? What are human beings saying by such behavior? Something is written into them that tells them, “There is Someone out there and He must be vast and powerful and (in the case of Christianity), personal and loving and affirming of our world (see the incarnation).”

    But, back to conscience – I’ve seen this personally in my own children. Before they could even read, they understood that if I break something, I have to hide in the closet because I know I just did something wrong. Conscience. You don’t need to subscribe to Kohlberg, Piaget, etc… You already know.

    Adults are the same way, but we disguise this and even deny this so much better. That’s Paul’s point in Acts 17. We know there is a God. We pretend to seek truth, but even if we find it, we refuse to acknowledge him as God, because we want to do life our way. We will even play dumb to what we know, an elaborate hide-and-seek game with Deity.

    It’s not that we can’t know; it’s that we won’t know. Why? It’s not just a push for “autonomy” as I’m sure your sociologists/psychologists are quick to inform you. It is pure, unadulterated rebellion. No one will be God over my life. Disguise that with arguments all day long. Subcribe to endless theories of man. Pretend to be searching. Be academically acceptable. Seek to be an intellectually satisfied atheist. But when it’s all said and done, “The Cynic” has bowed the knee to “Cynicism” – his own religion and god.

    So, it’s not “mens theories” on the development of our conscience, etc…, that informs our worldview. It’s the dynamic that is embedded in each of our own hearts.

  12. Pingback: A New Year Virtue in Every Old Year Vice - Fulfilling Good Needs without a Bad Twist « Spiritual Questions Blog

  13. Mr. Disbelief

    See, that statement is ridiculous. You cannot argue that all humans have a shared set of moral standards without ignoring cannibalism, torture, rape, slavery, masochism and a myriad of other terrors that humans practice upon themselves and one another. If you knew anything about anthropology or sociology, you would know that humans exhibit a VAST variety of behaviors that to us “cultured” folk, appear ghastly and amoral.
    The unfortunate truth is that these men and women have had the misfortune of being indoctrinated into a religion that does not contain moral code by judeo christian standards.

    Christians are lucky that their religious text has been clumsily borrowed from so many philosophers and educated peoples before it so that it, while being utter tripe and nonsense to a logical mind, at least contains a moral code. But if you look closely at your holy text, you will realize of course, that it condones and even encourages, sometimes by law, the performing of such disgusting acts as child rape and abuse, murder, genocide, and many others. What has happened is that your biological imperative to further your own species through a general cooperation and fair treatment of your own kind has overruled these instructions to rape and torture and this has provided you with your so called “god given” moral code.

    You see animals exhibit this same behavior, when it suits them. Pack hunters work together to bring down prey, birds protect their young, and frogs somehow refrain from murdering each other in cold blood. Why? Because it would be detrimental to the survival of their species.

    Is this because god gave commandments to frogs? No. Our “conscience” is just a biological system that we have evolved. Scientists have discovered this through careful observation and study of the natural world. I happen to trust many of their discoveries far more than the nonsense in your holy bible. The scientific conclusions reached by these hardworking men and women has convinced me that there is no god. This is why I am an atheist.

    Please understand. Atheist is an adjective. It means I do not believe in god, nor do i subscribe to any religion or religious practices. It is NOT a “worldview”. My complex and ever developing worldview cannot be described solely by so simple an adjective as atheist. Do not insult me by implying this. The only thing I share with the cynic here is our common disbelief in god. We have achieved this conclusion in unique ways, and it means different things to both of us.

    If you like, I would be happy to describe how I am certain (yes certain) that there is no god.

  14. Cutting to the chase here…

    You will never disprove the existence of God. Save yourself the time.

    The God you bow to is yourself, the god of Me.

    There are some things that we cannot NOT know. This is natural law and conscience at work – no social conditioning needed.

    Stop pretending and playing dumb to what the majority of humanity knows. Of course, there is a First Cause, an Intelligent Designer, a Moral Lawgiver.

    Drop the smoke-screen and get real with that. And no, there are no true atheist, just those who say over and over again there is no God, despite the evidence.

  15. Bleh Bleh Bleh

    If Atheism is Idolatery, then so Is Christianity, since they worship Jesus.

    One who blindly or excessively admires or adores another.

    yep fits the description well.

    And you apologetists are so dumb to say that we can’t prove God doesn’t exist. The burden of proof is on you. There’s absolutely no evidence that the God of the Bible exists, so shut your mouth on this.

    Anyways, the “God of Me” is prevalent in several mythologies, known as the Chi, Daemon, Genius, or in Christian myth, Guardian Angel. You fail.

    Is is Freaking hard to believe that some people can be as stupid as you- but here you are!

  16. Jesus was God. No idolatry there. What must He have been like for a bunch of monotheistic Jews to declare that he was something their religion said he could never be? No legendery accretion. No authorial embellishment. The gospels were written within 20-30 years of the life of Jesus.

    but, you are correct. Atheism is idolatry. No one can be greater than me, the almighty human. Rethink your position. very weak.

  17. Here4Years

    As an atheist I don’t worship anything. Stop trying to drag me down to your level.

  18. Steve King

    Believers seem often to be stuck in the mindset that atheists, as a collective, must worship something, and that’s the underlying error of your hypothisis. Because the believer’s mind is switched on to a setting that there MUST be something out there that is a superior power, it seems incapable of understanding that non-believers are prefectly capable of getting through life without the need to worship anything. It appears your assumption is that because we don’t have a god or gods, that we must instead worship self.

    From this non-believers stand point, the logic behind that concept is appallingly illogical, yet appears common among those believers who are most insistant on “proving” that atheism is a religion.

    To me, and backed up by the civil conversations I’ve had with believers, it seems the opposite is true. That not only are humans NOT “stamped” with an inate need to worship, that believers seem to grow more illogical and desperate as their beliefs are challenged. That the more it is shown that religion is simply a product of family, peer and regional pressure to conform, the more they fight back against it.

  19. Bleh Bleh Bleh

    The gospel was written 40 years after Jesus. You have no proof that he wasn’t created by Satan to decieve you guys. In fact, you have no proof he existed at all.

    And Atheists don’t worship humans, so your position is weaker. Do we pray to humans? Give humans all our blessings?

    No more than every other human on Earth. If you still think Atheists are idolaters, then you’re a double idolater for worshipping both humans and Jesus.

  20. Adey

    You have no proof of a god or gods. In fact your bible acknowledges that there are other gods, “You shall have no other god before me.” Ring any bells? Your logic sucks as well. “If atheists don’t worship god they worship themselves.” From which orifice did you pull this? There is no justification for this in any of your statements. We atheists are well aware of how insignificant we are, we just have to stand in awe of the night sky. However you have the arrogance to believe that you are the special creation of an imaginary being and call us idolators, You yourself are an atheist for not believing in any of the other gods which man has created for himself. So why, apart from supreme arrogance, do you believe in the bully-god of the bible?

  21. Oni-Link

    Hi Joey

    If someone really did somehow show you there was no God, do you think you would act diffrently? What i mean is, is the fear of punishment the reason you don’t murder and rape etc, is the moral code of the bible unique, perfect and essential?

    If you look at the run down of people in prison, the vast majority are christians or at least religious, don’t you think its a shame that good people like Bleh, Disbelif and Cynic will be burning forever while your in heaven with a lot of criminals? is that really just?

    I think by saying there are some things you can’t NOT know it’s just your way of saying you have faith, for thats all you have really, and thats fine, as long as you dont try and use illogical beliefs to impact upon the lives of others, then good for you, its nice to have a purpose you consider defines you, but it sounds like your angry with people who don’t belief what you do, and thats a shame

    if you really think we will burn in hell forever more, that shoud be good enough for you, thats what god wants, let it be, just worry about yourself, im sure you sin sometimes, focas more on that and leave people like us alone

    Thanks

    Ben

  22. Gottfried

    I don’t need to disprove God. You need to prove it. And when/if you prove it, I’ll admit I’m wrong. (But when/if we prove it, you’ll just put blinder on – that’s the difference between Science and Faith)

    Next thing you know you’ll start masturbating over Pascal’s Wager’s unbeatable logical.

    – Gottfried

  23. Rebecca A (MD)

    You know, if there are truly no atheists then religious types should stop obsessing about them . . .

  24. schadenfreude

    joe, you say “You will never disprove the existence of God. Save yourself the time.” It is not possible to prove a negative. One cannot disprove Russell’s teapot any more than one can disprove god. That is why the burden of proof lies on the one(s) making the claim (i.e. of the teapot/god).

    “There are some things that we cannot NOT know.” Indeed. We cannot know what occurs beyond the event horizon of a black hole, or what occurred before the big bang (as time is a property of the universe, it is impossible to say what happened before there was time). However, not knowing an answer to a question does not make attributing the solution to a divinity acceptable (i.e. the “God of the Gaps”). Rather I feel it is intellectual dishonesty. I am much happier saying “I don’t know.”

    “There’s this inner void in our hearts…A glitch is wired into the system of every heart…Reaching for true purpose, peace, and joy is what you should be doing. ” I would argue that this has been on the mind of every human since we as a species became self-aware. Who exactly are we? What is our purpose in life? Is there a purpose? I think that these nagging questions, combined with a primitive superstition led to our initial beliefs in the divine. Of course these religious beliefs would likely have arisen after the discovery and implementation of agriculture. However, I feel these questions are best explored by philosophy and science, not theology.

    “…there is in every human being a moral law written that no one teaches us – it’s just there.” First, that does not apply to sociopaths (unless you don’t believe in them either). Second, perhaps the human ability to empathize is a product of natural selection (as those that lack this ability would be less likely to produce offspring). Earlier in that paragraph you recognize that ” Virtually every society recognizes and demonstrates this internal moral code….” Religion aside, I would recommend reading Plato’s “The Republic” which philosophizes on the formation of society and the best form of governance for a society. I argue its relevance because of the very nature of government is to protect its citizens from external dangers as well as internal, and to provide recourse for those who are wronged. Any society that allows rampant murder, theft, rape, etc. will not function or last. Therefore, that every society recognizes that crimes are bad is not a proof of any divinity.

    “Look closely at your world and God will whisper to you what He’s like. Mountains, lakes, oceans, clouds, wind, rain, people, and sunshine’s warmth strike a deep chord, ‘Yes, there is a God.'” For you perhaps, but I hear “anthropic principle.” When I look, I see plate tectonics, glacial retreat, Darwinian evolution, thermonuclear fusion and stellar evolution. If you wish to attribute all that to you deity and say he started all that, that’s fine with me. But I do not believe as such. The only divinity I could fathom would be along the lines of a blind watchmaker, and architect of the universe or grand designer who initially set the wheels turning (via big bang) and sat back to see what happens. (In other words the most religious I could get would be deistic because I do not believe in divine intervention)

    Moving on, you claim that my lack of belief in your deity “…is pure, unadulterated rebellion.” I say it is really the lack of evidence. As your religion requires faith, there cannot be evidence. Frankly there is as much evidence for the existence of Jesus as there is for the existence of Socrates (none). The difference between the two is that nobody ever claimed Socrates was divine. However, one can read the gospels as a work of philosophy by taking out the dogma and references to the supernatural. Indeed, this has been done before and is known now as the “Jefferson Bible.” In fact, it was passages alluding to the existence of supernatural entities such as demons than started me on my long path to atheism.

    Unfortunately, I’m sure you will hold steadfast in your belief that atheists are secretly rebelling against your god. So lets try this; why don’t you believe in Shiva or Vishnu? My best friend is Hindu. Is he rebelling against a god he knows nothing about or are you rebelling against gods you know nothing about? As Stephen Robets once famously said, “I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”

    By the way, attempting you use your religious text to persuade nonbelievers is totally futile. It would be akin to using the Bhagavad Gita or the Vedas to convince you that Hinduism is the true religion and that you are rebelling against Vishnu.

    “…there are no true atheist…” And there are no true Scotsmen. Please note that this is a logical fallacy and only serves to undermine your argument.

    Oh, I just noticed, atheists failed to meet your definition of idolater that you set forth at the beginning of this piece. You define “Idolater” as “One who worships idols” or “One who blindly or excessively admires or adores another” then go on to say “…atheists, they have no one to worship but themselves, excessively admiring and adoring themselves.” The term you are looking for here is narcissism. We would be idolaters if we blindly or excessively admired or adored say, Ronald Reagan.

    Lastly, I am confused by your ire towards us atheists. Are you attempting to poof us out of existence with a puff of logic? Cheers

  25. CourtroomWolf

    There’s no proof, whatsoever, of Christianity (or any other religion for that matter) being the true religion. I’ll admit, there’s no proof for atheism, either, but I’d consider it the default position. The fact that there isn’t any conclusive evidence means that if there is a god, it isn’t screaming for recognition, so it doesn’t really matter. Also, faith is a horrible way to choose a religion. You can’t make things true just by believing in them really hard.

  26. dragonsnake

    Oh For Fuck sake!

  27. I appreciate each of you for taking the time to think about these things.

    But, I have an issue. No one addressed the point at hand. How do you account for the historical fact that a bunch of monotheistic Jews began to proclaim Jesus as God, something their faith and religion said he coul never be. How do you account for the extrabiblical sources that affirm the existence of Jesus in the first century in the land known as Israel o Judea? How do you account for the nearly disappearance of all pagan art from the 1st to about the 3rd century? How do you account for a strictly Judaistic system that demanded a “Sabbath” begin to meet on “Sunday” instead?
    What historical event occured that demanded a shift in all these ways?

    What most of y0u want to do is bicker over “religion” or “how religious people hate you” or “why you are an atheist”. Some of you, and I say this as an honest friend, are completly ignorant of historical data. You seriously question the existence of Jesus in the first century? Whenever anyone makes this assertion, I know immediately that you are clueless on the facts.

    Deal with the issues, the data. Leave your smokescreens behind? They are old and way over used. You’re only fooling yourself. Tear down your religious shrine of following the god of your bodily appetites or material greed or the simple pleasure of denying Jesus and God their rightful place.

  28. Oni-Link

    hi joey

    im sure there is evidence that a man called jesus lived in the first centruy (despite some people thinking overwise, i’m not going say say if he was real or not, i dont know) but you being able to prove he was real, and being able to prove god and christianity are real, are two diffrent things

    bear in mind there have been thousends of people who have claimed similer things to jesus, and even right now, there will be 100s of people alive right now with followers and everything, believing they are the son of god, the diffrence with christianty, is it got popular, though violence and war (how else did a middle easten religion reach europe)

    now, if god was real, i think he would maybe have given us more than “faith” to go on, if you’ve read the bible (im sure you have) you’ll find god to be someone who doesnt really do things by half measures, its inconsistent of him to be so vocal and full of fire and anger and a desire to be worshiped, and in reality what we see, ie, nothing, just “faith” and a fear you’ll burn forever for not having it

    if in the bible, a people such as the muslims, rose like they have and have started to spread like they have, no way would he have let it get so popular and influential. why is he just letting this happen?

    i dont have much against muslims, as long as they dont try and enforce there brand of luncey on progessive and decent places (american included, im english btw)

    now, i know you think islam is a false religion, and allah a flase god, but bear in mind, muslims have just as much evidence for there god as you do for yours, and they as just as sure you are wrong, and being a logical and reasonable person, if you look at the evidence, you’ll see both faiths are highly unlikey and pretty clearly man made constructs

    that conclusion, is all it means, to be an atheist, nothing more than that, we have no agenda, no aims, no goals, no missions, we dont want to crush religion, or to hinder christians, all we ask, is you dont force what you believe, into areas that will affect us all, if we’re “sinners” then fair enough, smile to yourself safe in the knowledge you wont go to hell, and move along

    if god truely does exsist, believe me, he doesnt need your help or any other christians to help enforce his will, he’s more than able to shape the world as he wants, and currently, he’s pretending he’s not there, so that shoud be good enough for you

    kind regards

    Ben

  29. X

    So, we all worship something? Sorry honey, we’re not all vain peacocks or mindless minions to worship ourselves or someone else. We live life enjoying it to the fullest. At least, “worshiping” an idol that is there in this world has more justification than worshiping someone who isn’t even there.

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